Ohio State’s historical NFL Draft run and an interesting hypothetical question: Buckeye Talk podcast

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Ohio State set a new record for the Ryan Day era in the 2025 NFL Draft with four players selected in the first round, the most with him as the head coach.

In a year where OSU hopes to make draft history coming off a national title, it got off to a good start on Day 1 with Emeka Egbuka, Donovan Jackson, Tyleik Williams and Josh Simmons hearing their names called. All four represent something important for the program under Day.

On this episode of Buckeye Talk, Stephen Means and Stefan Krajisnik break down all four picks while also posing an interesting question about its choice at quarterback in 2024.

Thanks for listening to Buckeye Talk and sign up to get text messages from experts Stephen Means, Stefan Krajisnik and Andrew Gillis at 614-350-3315. Get the insider analysis, have your voice heard on the Buckeye Talk podcast and connect with the best Buckeye community out there.

Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.

Stefan Krajisnik (00:00.227)

banks.

Stephen Means (00:01.619)

Okay.

Stephen Means (00:07.441)

We’re not the only people going live tonight The funny thing about us going live is because this is only our second time doing this There’s an element to it of like

Stefan Krajisnik (00:23.66)

And we are live.

Stephen Means (00:23.859)

Yeah, but we don’t really like have a professional start. We just are just talking and we realize, we’re live.

Stefan Krajisnik (00:31.97)

Here we are.

Stephen Means (00:34.088)

Yeah.

Stephen Means (00:38.368)

And I would love for us to be able to perfect that over time, which is why we’re

Stephen Means (00:45.477)

Okay, I’m gonna send this to our textures real quick.

Stephen Means (00:54.865)

Here’s the way.

Stephen Means (01:00.687)

So.

I wish you had the most first rounders this year.

Stephen Means (01:13.82)

I’m out.

Stephen Means (01:22.611)

Welcome back to Buckeye Talk. I’m Stephen Vines, that’s the fun cry. We’re just gonna act like we haven’t been live here already for about three minutes there. Just act like we’re starting from scratch. Ohio State, first night of the NFL draft is complete. Ohio State.

with four guys drafted a Mecca Bucca 19th to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Donovan Jackson 24th to the Minnesota Vikings, Tylee Williams 28th to the Detroit Lions, which I think is pretty funny because it feels like Michigan and Ohio State just traded a player states to the perspective NFL teams. And then Josh Simmons closes out the first round going 32nd to the Kansas City Chiefs. That is officially.

The most NFL draft picks to go in the first round of the Ryan Day era. It’s a pass as a 2020 draft class. I’ve had Chase Young, Jeff Okuda, and Damon Arnett all go in the first round. then in 2023, CJ Stroud, Paris Johnson, and Jaxon Smith and Jigba all went in the first round. It’s actually the second most. It’s the most actually since 2016 when they had five guys, Joey Bosa, Ezekiel Elliott, Eli Apple, Taylor Decker, and Darren Lee all go in the first round. Get the text.

two six one four three five zero three three one five two week free trial. 399 after that I was just sending texts left and right all night. They weren’t all the most newsy texts. Sometimes it was just little tidbits about where things were going on here. But Stefan, I don’t know if we have to go in order unless you want to go in order here, but four guys to choose from that’s the most of any team this year. We were talking before we were talking while we were already on this pod, but we weren’t officially potting yet. We’re live, but we’re still trying to figure it out.

Texas you said had three, Michigan had three, Alabama had two, Ole Miss had two, a couple other schools had two, Georgia had two I believe. Where would you like to start amongst these four in terms of importance to the Ryan Day era Ohio State? Or just important to you. We can do whatever we want.

Stefan Krajisnik (03:34.37)

Well, am I allowed to be, am I allowed to be kind of evil and start with the rivalry? Can we, I mean, it’s, Ohio state, Michigan. Where else would we begin? I think maybe the most interesting thing for me to track throughout this draft as a whole, and it’s going to spill over to next year’s draft as well. And then obviously taking it from last year’s draft is how many draft picks are there going to be from the Michigan national championship team and how many are there going to be from this Ohio state team? I think there’s going to be more from this Ohio state team.

Stephen Means (03:40.231)

Why not?

Yeah!

Stefan Krajisnik (04:03.81)

Today we could kind of find out how many first-round picks there was gonna be from either team So if I’m doing this right JJ McCarthy was the only Michigan first round pick last year that Mason Graham Colson Lovell and Kenneth Grant this year So they’re up to four and Ohio State’s already have four now with Josh Simmons getting drafted and we’re Assuming Caleb Downs will be there next year Potential Carl Nell Tate first round next year Jeremiah Smith potential first round next year on the Michigan side that they will have some spillover

technically into next year. I hope I’m pronouncing these names right. Keon is a sab or sab. He’s with Bama now, but he was on the Michigan national championship team, 23. And then Jaiyer Hill was on that team as well. And I saw him in some projections going, obviously very early projections for 2026 going first round. So I think Ohio State’s gonna end up having the edge in first round picks from the two championship teams, but it’s actually gonna be in the-

Stephen Means (04:46.131)

I think he was. Yes.

Stefan Krajisnik (05:01.774)

being kind of close because Michigan with three guys this year shortened the gap a bit because they were coming in with just JJ McCarthy last year that they were going to have some work to do. So it’s going to be interesting comparing these numbers between the 24, 25 and 26, I guess, and 27 drafts because of Jeremiah Smith doing what he did. It’s going to be cool comparing these rosters overall and seeing the NFL draft numbers because it is like, I don’t want to say it’s a shame because

Stephen Means (05:25.501)

It’s also good.

Stefan Krajisnik (05:30.604)

They did it to themselves. But the cheating thing did kind of gloss over that this was a very talented team. And if they hadn’t cheated, no one would be talking about them the way people talk about.

Stephen Means (05:32.114)

Mm-hmm.

Stephen Means (05:38.545)

Okay. Which is why it’s going to infuriate fans even more when that does start to play out. When you look back on all these things, you knew it in real time. these Ohio state teams from recruiting aspect were more talented than these Michigan teams were recruiting rankings across the country, right? Blue chip ratios, the talent composite two, four, seven puts out whatever you want to use as a metric. They were all saying Ohio state’s more talented than Michigan.

And so every fan was already going, how do we keep losing these games? And it’s like, oh, okay, they were cheating, but then they lost in 2024 and nobody was cheating. And it’s like, how are you doing this? Well, two things happened. Mason Graham went fifth to the Browns. And I think Kenneth Grant went 13th, I believe, to the Miami Dolphins. Well, that’s how they lost in 2024. Ryan Day and Chip Kelly decided, hey, let’s run at those two guys.

all game long, instead of giving the ball to our 19th pick and our eventual top five draft pick. We don’t have to stay negative, but it’s just another reminder of the only negative that comes out of Thursday night is more infuriation about how those Michigan games went because every single metric, even the NFL drafts now is telling you that Ohio State has been better and more talented than Michigan.

So what the heck was happening the last Saturday in November? I’m glad you did that so you could be the villain in that.

Stefan Krajisnik (07:02.54)

Yeah. But I want to say very clearly now it’s out of the way. We’re done talking about that. I kind of I’m sorry that we started like that, but it was just on my mind because I was just doing that research. let’s actually start with Ohio State. Let’s talk about Mecca because the run of receivers is just it’s amazing and it’s unprecedented. I did some pretty quick research after Mecca went 19th to the Bucks.

Stephen Means (07:08.334)

Yeah,

Stephen Means (07:17.363)

Okay.

Stefan Krajisnik (07:28.664)

to just see has there ever been a team that’s had four straight drafts with a receiver in the first round. And it’s a hard thing to look up because I don’t have the advanced analytics.

Stephen Means (07:37.971)

It’s more tedious than the 20 minutes you probably spent trying to find.

Stefan Krajisnik (07:41.518)

Yes, correct. And what I did was I’m just going to look up play wide receivers taken in the first round of NFL history. That was easy to find. And then I control F searched Alabama, USC, LSU, Texas. And I was like, Florida, if one of these schools didn’t get it, I’m sure nobody did. Notre Dame, whatever. And the only team I could find that came close was the Alabama stretch from 2020 to 22. I have it here in front of me. me just pull it out. Where they had Judy rugs.

Stephen Means (07:54.397)

enough.

Stefan Krajisnik (08:10.798)

Smith, Waddle, and Jamison Williams, which is funny that Jamison Williams is in that mix. So they had five receivers in a three draft span. This is Ohio State going four straight drafts with the first round pick. I don’t think that’s ever happened.

Stephen Means (08:19.997)

Okay.

Stephen Means (08:25.235)

It’s the same amount. That’s what you think. It’s still, it’s five guys. It’s spread out a little more because it wasn’t two and two and then one. I think the impressive thing, and I wrote about this. So back in 2023, the summer of 2023, Marv is on the internet looking up stuff. And you know, it’s the summer, it’s the dog days of summer. And so all the college football accounts are just putting out random stuff to spark conversations and get engagement on Twitter. And they posted a graphic, it, Fox’s College Football on Fox.

Stefan Krajisnik (08:27.212)

Yes.

Stephen Means (08:54.707)

Twitter account posted a graphic and it was essentially just what’s the best wide receiver room of all time. was Ohio State and LSU. And very quickly, Marv quotes it. And this is before he had his Heisman Trophy final this season in 2023. He just goes, Ohio State 2021 spring room. And I have had that in the back of my mind since he tweeted it out and been saving it. Because here’s that room now. Here’s the 2D of that room in the spring. And I’m glad you mentioned Jameson Williams because he is still here at that point.

Garrett Wilson, Chris Olave, Jackson Smith, the Jigba. That’s the number 10 pick and then the number 11 pick in the 2022 NFL draft and the number 20 pick who was also wide receiver one in the 2023 NFL draft. Marvin Harrison Jr., Jamison Williams and Emeka Ibuka. Marvin Harrison Jr. was wide receiver one in the number four overall pick in the 2024 NFL draft for the Cardinals. He was also the first non-quarterback taken in that draft. Jamison Williams goes 12 in the 2022 NFL draft. So Garrett, Chris and

JMo or wide receivers two, three and four behind Drake London, Atlanta that year. And I bring that up because I want it Garrett in Atlanta. And then now you’ve got a Mecca Bucca who depending on how you want to talk about Travis Hunter and what he is a Mecca is either wide receiver two or wide receiver three in this NFL draft class. But still six guys, one room, all in the top 20 other respective NFL draft classes. That’s absurd for anybody.

to be able to do, be able to say when Marvin and Emeka got to Ohio State, they walked into a wide receiver room where there were already four other guys in it who were going to be wide receivers, first round wide receivers, and only one of them had to leave to achieve that goal.

Stefan Krajisnik (10:37.976)

Yeah, it’s it’s crazy to even think about because. This is kind of only the start. It feels like because if Cardinal Tate or Brandon in this and honestly like. If I told you both of them were frozen on pigs last year, I don’t think it’s shocking. I’m not predicting that to happen, but I don’t think it would be shocking. And then we’re talking about Jeremiah Smith in two years. And then we’re talking about guys like Quincy Porter and Miley Graham and Chris Henry Junior and like.

Stephen Means (10:46.931)

Woo.

Stefan Krajisnik (11:06.68)

The list goes on and on. This is not stopping anytime soon, as long as Brian Harline is at Ohio State. And it doesn’t sound like he wants to leave anytime soon. Like this trend is going to continue most likely. And it’s like, it’s getting to the territory where maybe this is a record that never gets broken. Like if my research and right and the four straight years with a receiver in the first round is indeed the first time this ever happened, like.

Stephen Means (11:25.842)

Yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (11:35.692)

and you start talking about getting to five and six, I don’t know how, like, this is an unprecedented run.

Stephen Means (11:43.379)

think next year gets tricky because there’s not the guy who is the Mecca Buca Chris Olave description of maybe they could have been a first rounder after three years, but they came back to maybe solidify themselves as first rounders because of whatever the reason was. Chris wanted to come back another year and get physically strong and ready for the NFL. Mecca injuries kind of destroyed his 2023 season along with if you want to feel this way quarterback play not being at

the highest level it needed to be at in the games it needed to be at, whatever, however you feel about that. I guess we’ll find that out in the next two days where Colin McCourt goes. They don’t really have a guy who fits the Garrett Wilson, Marvin Harrison Jr., Jackson Smith Najibah description either where, okay, these dudes are first rounders. They just have to be in college another year. Description, what you have really is,

Jamison Williams when he got to Alabama of. Kind of on the radar, but not really on the radar, and that’s where Carnell Tate is, and that’s where Brandon Innis are, where I think because their Ohio State receivers were saying this that OK, maybe one of them pops next year, but it’s not always a guarantee that it’s going to happen right. Eventually things come to an end, so I do think next year. Carnell and Brandon are going to be an interesting case study for this if this because listen 2026 nobody’s worried about this.

There’s a 19 year old on the roster right now that let’s you 2027 draft 2026 season. Nobody’s worried about that. There’s we’re having number one overall pick conversations when it comes to JJ. So I think next year is the and we’re to have a pot about this next week about just predicting Ohio State’s first round draft picks from a year from now. But I do think next year is a interesting bridge gap year for Carnell.

and Brandon and maybe Cardinal more than Brandon, because he’s a little bit more established, but Brandon’s gonna play in the slot, which gets the ball a lot. So let’s, I think we’ve reached the point with this room though, where it’s safe to just assume it’s going to happen and be wrong if it’s not. So let’s assume either Cardinal and Brandon or Brandon is or both turn into what we expect receivers to turn into when they hear their name day one next year. And then JJ is a year after that. Realistically, when you look at the,

Stephen Means (13:59.803)

guys are coming into the room. got JJ in 2027. Quincy Porter already looks like he’s well on his way to developing into something. Chris Henry Jr. Mylon Graham. We’ll see what happens with the rest of this 2026 recruiting class. You got Jameer Brown in the 2027 recruiting class. When is the next time Ohio State doesn’t have a first round draft pick at wide receiver?

Stefan Krajisnik (14:23.288)

think we’re talking beyond the years of committed players.

Stephen Means (14:26.931)

Okay, market now how many years does this go? It’s at four years right now. How many more years if we had the market down right now? It is past midnight of the first night of the NFL draft four years in how many more years market down right now Stefan?

Stefan Krajisnik (14:44.974)

So Jeremiah would be the 2027 giraffe.

Stephen Means (14:47.995)

Yes.

Stefan Krajisnik (14:52.546)

I’ll say I’ll say 2028 NFL draft is when Ohio State doesn’t have someone so that it would get to six years. I really do think Carnell Tate’s gonna end up being a first round pick next year. He’s got the size. And honestly, like even if even if the workload and the numbers don’t rise too much. NFL teams are I mean you just had a defensive end taken by the Bengals who had like four and a half sacks last year like and that is what it is. But like Cardinal is going to have the

Stephen Means (15:02.898)

I do too.

Stefan Krajisnik (15:22.586)

the size and things of that nature where even if the numbers don’t pop off the charts, he’s still going to get some attention. So I think it’s going to be Cardinal next year, Jeremiah in 2027 and then 2028 gets interesting because if Brandon Innis comes back next year, it might be hard again for someone to like break through on the roster and on the depth chart. Or maybe you kind of get caught in this, this weird in between where

Stephen Means (15:47.325)

Yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (15:51.948)

You’re either like you’re junior who’s not playing a ton and you want to come back for your senior year or whatever the situation may be. It might just stack up weirdly in 2028. The way the receiver kind of depth chart maps out.

Stephen Means (16:06.193)

It’s what would have happened this year, I think, if Emeka hadn’t dealt with injuries, where if he doesn’t deal with injuries and he’s gone, well, why didn’t Ohio State have a first round draft pick this year? Well, because nobody was draft eligible. They were playing a lot of young guys and it was kind of a reset of a thing. And I’ll say 28 as well, just because I’m almost expecting that to happen at some point, where it’s not because nobody was good enough, it’s just more nobody was old enough to go.

Stefan Krajisnik (16:11.554)

Yeah, exactly.

Stephen Means (16:35.571)

and if nobody’s old enough to go pro, then you can’t, it’s just gonna end because of age and that’s how this kind of works here.

Stefan Krajisnik (16:42.956)

I will say to let me one more thing on a mecca. We just got a comment here from PJ saying it’s a great landing spot for him. I 100 % agree. I love the idea of him slotting into to what Tampa has been doing. I know they lost their offensive coordinator to Jacksonville, but like the way they they work their receivers and you think about the production that guys like Godwin and Mike Evans have had for how many years it’s been now and they got Bucky Irving in the backfield to like I think Baker’s you know, at least been consistent enough for them like

Stephen Means (16:49.873)

Yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (17:10.764)

A mecha slotting into that offensive, kind of being a young receiver in a receiver room that’s quickly getting old, I love the fit. I 100 % agree.

Stephen Means (17:19.121)

He just went from being the old guy preparing the young guys. And now he’s about to be the young guy getting prepared by the old guys. I love.

Stefan Krajisnik (17:21.742)

Yeah.

He’s going to see Mike Evans and be like, hey, I was in your shoes last year.

Stephen Means (17:27.847)

Yeah, but when I was at your shoes, he won a ring. So I don’t know, man. Are you gonna get me a ring this year or what? Okay, I’m gonna skip around a little bit because I just think and it’s going off of we got somebody in our chat who’s asked this question and it’s essentially what I was going to say anyway. Buckeye Ryan 19 is Donovan Jackson the biggest winner of the seniors that came back as far as improved draft stock? Yes, I think he is. And I’ll take that a step further than that.

I Josh Simmons getting hurt. It ended up being a win for both because they’re both first round draft picks. But I do wonder if Josh Simmons doesn’t get hurt, he’s probably a top 20, probably top 15 draft pick, right? He probably.

Stefan Krajisnik (18:09.93)

just, she just was talking about like top five, top 10 if Josh Simmons doesn’t get hurt.

Stephen Means (18:12.947)

That’s what I’m saying. Especially once you see how the tackles came off the board, I think he moves up a little bit. I think Donovan Jackson goes in the 40s if he’s just a guard, though I’m not even 100 % sure about that because there are some guards coming off the board today. But I do wonder if... I mean, listen, his first ever game at tackle was against the number five pick in the NFL draft.

And then he also had a game at tackle where he played against another first round draft pick today that the Falcons took and. Abdu Carter had his moments, but again, that was his first game. We were saying it after the Tennessee game. Where’s James Pierce? Nobody could find him. And that’s a first round draft pick that he did that to. I wonder if teams started looking at Donovan and going, he’s not just a guard and he’s super athletic and he’s got crazy long arms, even if he doesn’t have.

prototypical tackle size for whatever that means. He doesn’t have he’s short with long arms. Will Campbell is tall with short arms and both of them are first round graphics on the offensive line. Yes, I think Donnie for a guy who was if you had to rank the most on the fence guys about coming back up to 2023. He’s got a strong case for being number one. And in fact, I think he was completely out the door at one point and changed his mind.

And the day he changed his mind, ironically enough, Will Howard just so happened to also be on campus for a visit that day. But I think Donovan Jackson, boy boy, college football playoff, he made himself some money.

Stefan Krajisnik (19:47.99)

Yep. Yeah. I Ryan Day talked about him after the championship game as the question posed today. It was the morning after the national championship game question posed to him was like, there’s a, there’s a lot of stories on this team. A lot of you could pick any player and find a storyline for why winning a national championship is a fitting either ending or continuation, whatever you want to call it. And he was essentially asked like, what, what’s an underrated one? And the first one he mentioned was Donovan Jackson.

Stephen Means (20:16.391)

Mm-hmm.

Stefan Krajisnik (20:16.844)

He said it was basically a foregone conclusion. He said it was a last second decision for Donovan Jackson to come back and he comes back and you know, we talked about it when it happened, when, when Josh Simmons went down and Zdenmihalski went down and we’re trying to figure out what is this team going to do at tackle where there’s a lot of people in Donovan Jackson’s shoes who would have said, Hey, I want potential first round pick at guard. I don’t want to go out there and look bad and ruin my stock. And it was actually quite the opposite. think Donovan looked at it as an opportunity to improve his stock.

think Chip Kelly talked about it as an opportunity to improve his stock and that’s exactly what happened. If he is a starting tackle in the NFL, I would not be surprised. I would love to, and I’m sure there’s press conferences going on either right now or there will be going on after the draft. I want to know what the Vikings say because I would love to know where, he slots in for them. And that’s man, you look at what the Vikings do. Like that’s a well-oiled machine when it comes to offense and what Kevin O’Connell is doing there and the ways he’s slotted in guys on the offensive line.

Stephen Means (20:59.411)

Mm-hmm.

Stefan Krajisnik (21:16.428)

And think about the success they’ve had with quarterbacks through the last few years. Like we’re talking about Kirk Cousins and last year with Sam Darnold and they were winning games with Josh Dobbs after Kirk Cousins got hurt. Like a lot of that is scheming and doing different things with offense and having good protection. And you talk about having athletic linemen who can get down the field for you and block at the next level. That’s, what you want. And that’s what Donovan Jackson brings. I remember one of my first days covering this team going into the 2024 season.

of Chip Kelly just praising Donovan Jackson and his athleticism and being like, those are the type of offensive linemen I love in my offense. And I could see why teams at the next level would love a Donovan Jackson. And let’s see what the Vikings do with him because we’re not going to say the options are limitless because there’s really four options, but in terms of offensive linemen, the options are limitless because you could put him really wherever on the line outside of center and he’s going to be a productive player.

Stephen Means (22:12.883)

I mean, why not try it? Let’s see. Let’s get the floor camp and let’s see. That’s what I do.

Stefan Krajisnik (22:14.71)

I would doubt if Ohio State had bodies, maybe not if it would have moved.

Stephen Means (22:19.955)

Yeah, I mean that when we did our prediction spot, that was my whole thing. It just picked Donnie and figured out Volcamp. And I think that’s what the Mike Dees are gonna do. They picked Donnie with the 24th pick in the NFL draft. And in August, they’ll bring him back in and go, all right, let’s see where we can play.

Stefan Krajisnik (22:25.646)

You

Stephen Means (22:39.451)

And then they’ll play the Detroit Lions and play tight-weeked Williams.

So I’m looking at Ohio State’s 2021 recruiting class. And I think I’m gonna choose to look at this through the positive lens because there’s a pessimistic view to look at what has happened with this defensive line class. And then there’s a optimistic way that you can look at it. I’m gonna do the optimistic way because at some point they won a national championship. They just have four first round draft weeks. At some point, the pessimism is just you hating on them. You turn in the skip a list with LeBron James.

JT Twinlilowow, number four overall player, number two defensive lineman. He’s still waiting to be drafted. Five star recruit. Jack Sawyer, number five overall player, number three defensive lineman, five star recruit. He’s still waiting to be drafted. We both think that they’re going to be day two guys, so they might not be waiting that much longer.

Mike Hall, number 53 overall player, number 10 defensive lineman. He’s a three and done player who ends up being the 54th pick in the 2024 NFL draft. That’s a second round draft pick. And then now you have Tyleek Williams. He was a number 166 player in this class and the number 25 defensive lineman in this class. And he ends up being the 28th pick in the NFL draft. And now that it’s happened, none of us are shocked that it’s happened.

But I don’t know if four years ago when this group signed, if you went, how many of these defensive linemen are going to be first round draft picks? I do not know how many people would have added Tyleek Williams into that count. In fact, there was a point in this cycle where Tyleek Williams was Tuminshe Adelaye, who has now been at multiple schools. He ended up flipping to Texas A and then he spent some time at another schools.

Stephen Means (24:31.731)

not remembering right now and then he ended up Michigan State and now he’s at another school right now. So that’s, mean, he’s just kind of gotten lost to the transfer portal there, but four guys in the lowest of that group is a first round draft pick. And right now the second lowest of that group literally went one spot lower than what his recruiting wanking was. And we think Jack and JT are going to be second round draft picks. So maybe this is not even that big of a deal here, but let’s start with the optimistic part of this.

You turn the 166 player in his recruiting class until the 28th pick in the NFL draft. Larry Johnson still got it.

Stefan Krajisnik (25:09.294)

Yep. Yep. That’s a great way of looking at it. And another guy who benefited from that senior season, like, like someone pointed out or a comp PJ pointed out in her comments, the idea of what Tylee can be in the NFL is also so intriguing because of the athleticism mixed with the size. Like when, when his name popped up during the draft, the people on ESPN were like, yes, yes. Like this guy is, is legit. And it’s like, it’s a great Testament to Larry Johnson and

Stephen Means (25:30.973)

Mm-hmm.

Stefan Krajisnik (25:37.806)

It seems like every time the portal opens and we talk recruiting and we talk high school recruiting, we talk portal recruiting. people are quick to point out Larry Johnson, maybe not getting some wins, but when it comes to development, like he’s still showing it. He’s still doing it. And he actually just got a recruiting win the other day with the portal with Bo Atkinson from North Carolina.

Stephen Means (25:54.867)

Good week to be at Johnford, man.

Stefan Krajisnik (25:57.582)

That is true. No, but, but tightly is a huge win for this staff and it gives you excitement for as much as we talk about defensive tackle depth and needing it guys in the portal, those, those high end guys, Andrew Houston and Katie McDonald, what they can become for this team. Like first round pick is not out of the picture. And some of those guys have had better recruiting profiles than even Tyler Williams. like, when you see what Ohio state has done,

with Ty leak and what they produced him into a first round NFL pick. Start looking at those other guys. You’re like, man, like, like they can do this. They’re, doing this at an impressive rate. And we had the podcast recently talking about can Ohio state reclaim D line you it has, that hasn’t been the case, you know, since Ryan day has been the head coach, right? Like now is the time for it to start turning like Tilly just got drafted. We’re expecting Jack and JT and Ty Hamilton all get drafted. And then next year, are we talking about Kenyatta and Kaden and

You know, down the line, Katie McDonald and Andrew Houston and wherever this goes. Larry Johnson still got it. He’s still doing it.

Stephen Means (27:05.587)

I mean, it’s him and Che Cheong.

That’s your first round defensive lineman of the okay fine Let’s maybe this is not a pessimistic view because they’re gonna be second round to third round drop because I don’t think Either one of us are sitting here expecting JT and Jack to still be on the board on Saturday But I don’t know two five-star recruits

who, I mean, you miss to Mar Stewart a second ago who had four and a half sacks in his career. I mean, Jack and JT had more than that individually in just four games in a college football playoff. They’re not first round draft picks though. Does that matter? Because I do want to have a pot on that eventually this idea of who is doing the best job of turning guys who come in the college as five-star recruits so they’re expected to be first round draft picks and turning them into that exactly. Because with Ty League Williams, he outplayed.

his recruiting ranking. is a, it’s not always a miss. I hate that they’re talking about Cam Ward, which I do have a question I want to pose to you at the end of this. It’s not always a miss. Sometimes it’s just guys didn’t get evaluated. There are millions of high school kids playing high school football, but two of the top five players in the country, neither one of them is going to be a first round draft pick. Do we care? And you add in Zach Harrison, who was also a five star recruit on the defensive line, who also was not a first round draft pick. He was a day two draft pick.

Stefan Krajisnik (28:19.874)

Yeah.

Stephen Means (28:28.049)

and his recruiting class. went 75th to the Falcons in the third round in 2023. Do we put any credence to that when we’re living in a world where on the other flippant of that, Emeka, Buka, Jax, Smith, Jigma, they’re both five-star recruits in their first-round draft picks. JJ is a five-star recruit. He’s gonna be a first-round draft.

Stefan Krajisnik (28:46.04)

Yeah, maybe there’s a little bit stock to be put in that. I don’t want to say too much definitively without having done a little more research on that. And we’ll dig up the numbers and do a pot on that later, I guess. But yes and no, it’s, I would love to know the numbers of just like, sure, this five star didn’t develop into a first round pick, but like the second home pick. And like, is that, like, is that bad? Is that a good thing? Is that a bad, I don’t know. Cause I want to see how many five stars flame out and

Stephen Means (28:52.573)

short.

Stefan Krajisnik (29:14.636)

and aren’t draft picks at all or day three draft picks. I don’t know. It’s on the surface level, you would probably say it’s not a great thing, right? Like you’ve got a guy that’s a top five player in his class, you’d expect him to be one of the 32 players, first 32 players taken in his draft. So yeah, on surface level, I agree with you, but I’d be curious to know what the numbers show.

Stephen Means (29:35.379)

There also weren’t a lot of true defensive ends in the first round. There were a lot of edge, which is where football is moving, these hybrid outside linebackers who are like linebackers slash defensive ends. But true defensive ends, Mike Hill Williams, I think might’ve been the only one. So that’s part of this. it’s more, maybe James Pierce is more of like a traditional, what you think about a defensive end, like setting the edge guy. But it seems like that player that Micah Parsons,

makeup maybe is more of the first round draft pick now than what JT and Jack are in terms of they were prototype defensive in first round draft picks in 2019 when you’ve got Chase Young and Nick Bult, but now maybe that’s not the case in the world where more teams are running three, three, five and three, fours.

Stefan Krajisnik (30:09.678)

Yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (30:25.57)

Yeah. And I think that’s part of why we’re seeing JT kind of consensus being projected ahead of Jack. Cause I think JT has a little more of that in him of that like edge, whatever you want to call it. I think he has a little bit more of that in him, but that could be part of the reason too. And I think we’ve had plenty of discussions of Ohio state kind of using the traditional format front and we could go on forever about what that was like in the gym.

Stephen Means (30:50.483)

3, 4, 3, 4, 3, 4, 3, 4, no I’m joking, I’m joking.

Stefan Krajisnik (30:53.486)

But maybe maybe there I it’s like this where CJ Hicks got enters this conversation where like if it clicks for him like you know That’s that’s first-round potential because that’s what teams want

Stephen Means (31:06.803)

I don’t know man, think CJ Hicks was looking at Jaylen Walker tonight and going, well I can do that. I think this Jaylen Walker is not like a big dude, he’s 6′1″, he’s 6′1″, 6′2″, 2′40″. CJ Hicks is what, 6′3″, 2′35″, something like that? They’re the same age too, Jaylen Walker was just a three and done player and CJ Hicks is not, cause Jaylen Walker went to Georgia who runs a 3-4, so he got to do off ball and on the ball linebacker stuff while CJ was trying to learn how to be an on ball linebacker.

Stefan Krajisnik (31:12.632)

Hahaha

Stephen Means (31:36.827)

last three years and I’m just wondering if CJ looked at Jalen Walker if we could get true serum to CJ Hicks tonight and get him on a microphone would he go yeah I can be Jalen Walker

Stefan Krajisnik (31:50.082)

I mean, I don’t even know if you have to give him true serious. You just run into him and ask him. Yeah, you should just send him the link. Just send him the link. We did get a comment from Tyler here saying confused how Shamar went before Sawyer and JT. Yeah, I mean, I agree. Like like you said, Steven, part of it is what the NFL is kind of looking for in these addressers. Like maybe part of the conversation of why Jack and JT didn’t develop it the first time picks is as simple as like.

Stephen Means (31:52.145)

No, you know, you just kind of like get him on the, you just got to find him. Just find Steve Dan, pull up on a microphone and ask him. Jayla Walker, pretty good,

Stephen Means (32:07.634)

Yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (32:18.786)

I don’t know, this should have been. JT maybe should have been.

Stephen Means (32:23.537)

March tour is the weirdest pick of the night. It’s crazy. The Raiders didn’t

Stefan Krajisnik (32:27.278)

Falcons made a pretty weird pick. I think their pick was weird of how aggressive they were going for.

Stephen Means (32:30.376)

Okay.

Stephen Means (32:35.699)

Listen, don’t, it’s not, here’s why it’s weird. Here’s the problem. We live in the Ohio state bubble. And because we live in the Ohio state bubble, we view everything through the Ohio state lens. And know he did.

Stefan Krajisnik (32:47.158)

I texted you this. I said you have to, I was like, you have to unsee everything from what Nottingham Jackson and Josh Fryer did to him.

Stephen Means (32:53.683)

Yeah, you do. And let me tell you, because let me tell you why. As you were sending me that text, I was sending another text, the text of, I cannot believe we just took this kid. I just watched the guard pretending to be a tackle shut him down for 60 minutes. That was how I phrased it. And then, but at the same time, go, oh, Donovan Jackson is amazing. He can play everywhere. Because that’s the Ohio State Bubble. With that being said.

Stefan Krajisnik (33:17.656)

Yes.

Stephen Means (33:21.777)

This is me being a fan for a second. I think James Pierce is still a very, very, very, very good defensive end. I also have seen and heard from people, he doesn’t always put the best effort forward. And that really shows up when you’re going up against a dude who’s the same caliber as you. And I think that’s what happened in Ohio Stadium on December 21st. Donovan Jackson is like him. They look each other and literally they look each other in the eye. One’s the 24th pick in the draft, the other one’s the 26th pick in the draft.

That is the most I look you in the eye from a talent standpoint as it can humanly get for a football player. And Donovan Jackson showed up on December 21st, ready to show why he was the 24th pick in the NFL draft. And I don’t think James Pierce showed up there ready to show why he was the number 26 player in the NFL draft. That’s me defending my team.

Stefan Krajisnik (34:06.964)

I no list dude. just I went to war in group chats as a Bears fan talking about Colson Loveland being better than Tyler Warren, which which I like I do genuinely think that might be true. But also like in our jobs, we kind of watch football a bit more than like the people who are tech TV. So it’s like, hey, Tyler Warren threw a pass. Why would you not take it? I’m like, well, they have Caleb Williams. They’re not really looking for Tyler Ward to throw passes. But you sometimes listen.

Stephen Means (34:13.817)

What a night!

Stephen Means (34:22.129)

Yeah, yeah.

Stephen Means (34:34.023)

Yeah, no, no, no.

Stefan Krajisnik (34:36.77)

Draft day is like, it’s like we got six, five more months to just go in a war in these group chats and that’s all right. That’s okay.

Stephen Means (34:37.853)

card.

Stephen Means (34:43.655)

Draft night is hard for sports journalists who cover college football because you’re trying to do your job while also be a human being. Tyler in our chat just said it perfectly. Everyone’s a first round draft pick at OSU. Yes, when you live in the bubble, all 32 picks deserve to be Buckeyes, even though they’re only starting 22 people.

Stefan Krajisnik (34:47.714)

Yes.

Stefan Krajisnik (34:52.13)

Yeah.

Stephen Means (35:05.873)

Which brings us to the ultimate OSU bubble conversation. With Josh Simmons going 30 second to the Chiefs and I sent these Andrew, Stefan and I have been talking all night about a bunch of different stuff because we actually like each other in our real lives.

And I said this to them. In fact, I’ll read the text. I’ll let them in on it. I gotta find it first, because again, I’ve been yelling at people all night.

Stefan Krajisnik (35:30.146)

Give him your personal phone number, get those texts.

Stephen Means (35:32.291)

No. I have a graphic that’s been going down below us the entire time. I promise you not. I almost put my own phone number here. was late.

Stephen Means (35:44.371)

I’m starting to think, and this is after a text where I said shut up because they were making fun of me because of the Falcons picks. I’m starting to think Simmons isn’t completely healthy and now teams are scared off.

Stephen Means (35:57.293)

I do wonder though, it probably is some of that, cause Will Johnson fell out the first round as well. And I think a year ago you just said, yeah, he’s a lot to be a first round draft pick. What do we think of Josh Simmons at 32? And I’m gonna ask you two different questions. And so your answer is going to be long. There’s the shocked, not surprised of where he went too high, too low, but also.

I mean, this is kind of Justin Fry’s last gift to Ohio State is his first year as the offensive line coach in 2022. He got parish ready to go be a first round draft pick. And then his last year as Ohio State’s offensive line coach, he turned Josh Simmons in six games into a first round draft pick you. So essentially you can say whatever you want about the recruiting, which I think was horrid and not good enough, but

Josh Frye, Justin Frye had two first round draft picks tonight and one of which he took from San Diego State and turned into a first round.

Stefan Krajisnik (36:59.758)

Yeah, I’ll start with the latter. Talking about Justin Fry. I think my takeaway from Josh Simmons getting, being in the first round pick and my takeaway from what happened in 2024 with Ohio State’s offensive line is that Justin Fry knew how to develop and Justin Fry, the top end talent on his offensive lines was pretty good to the point where, like, I don’t mean top end just in terms of like the five starters, but like,

Stephen Means (37:17.139)

Mm-hmm.

Stefan Krajisnik (37:27.468)

Number six, number seven, like those guys could slot in and be starters for you. And then we saw that with Luke Montgomery and Austin Cereveld, Tucker Shabola, Carson Hensman, like they had depth in the sense of guys who could start. Where he hurt them into recruiting was not only was he not landing the best players, he wasn’t landing enough players. And Ohio State’s still kind of reeling from that. Like they’re still trying to get, they have like four.

Reliable offensive tackles and are trying to get more in the portal right now because they just need bodies to practice to get through fall camp and things of that nature so it’s like He did a fine job Even when he wasn’t recruiting the best players of developing players in the high-end talent But he didn’t do a good enough job with just kind of recruiting numbers as a whole and I think that hurt them Over the course of X amount of years and I think you’re seeing the results of some of that right now. I listen we’re like

Stephen Means (37:59.731)

Mm-hmm.

Stefan Krajisnik (38:22.978)

They have Ethan Owen, Yow and Philip Daniels. They had to go get those guys because what if they didn’t go into the portal, get offensive tackles? Where were they going to be this year? And you take the portal into account to some extent because it’s part of the game now, but you don’t want to have to rely on it every year. And they kind of put themselves in a spot where they had to rely on it this year. So there’s a domino effect to the recruiting side, but I think we saw that the top end talent, it could be there, right? Like there’s two first round picks from this line. And if Seth McLaughlin doesn’t hurt, who knows how high he gets drafted.

Stephen Means (38:50.867)

Yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (38:51.15)

I think he was going go very high after that last year at Alabama, but maybe he would have been a decent pick if he stayed healthy, right? Like, we’ll see what happens with Luke Montgomery and guys like that. Like, you know, we’ll credit Tyler Bowen and Ryan Day, what happens there. But Justin Fry was a key part of their early development. So we’ll see, I guess, what the story tells. But I think the high end talent was pretty decent for a guy that maybe didn’t land all the best recruits. What I will say about the Josh Simmons case specifically,

I do think the injury played a role. You know, we heard so much about so you got hurt in October. He was probably going to be ready for fall camp or for training camp and for the season and things of that nature. Booker McFarlane said on the ESPN broadcast that he had either had the same injury or knew someone who had the same injury. It’s like you don’t feel like yourself for a good year, maybe a little bit more. So Josh Simmons could get out there week one. He could play. He’s not going to be 100 % looking like a first round left tackle.

Stephen Means (39:39.123)

only.

Stefan Krajisnik (39:48.696)

probably until like a month and a half into the NFL season. And maybe that caused some slides, right? Maybe, you you’re looking at guys like Will Campbell who went fourth overall, like that’s a guy who’s probably gonna start for the Patriots day one and protect Drake May’s blind side. Well, if Josh Simmons is completely healthy, maybe he goes that high, right? And you’re ready to slot him in a start, but like, you can’t put a guy at left tackle in week one to protect a young quarterback.

if he’s not going to be really ready until you know, month and a half into the season. And then also, by the way, he still has to adjust to getting to the new level, which is a difficulty in itself. So I do think the injury played a bit of a role, but he dropped from what we projected him to go like realistically around 20. Even even with the injury, he fell to like 32 to the Chiefs. So I think he’s still in a good spot. I think like I think he’s going to play for the Chiefs this year. Maybe it’s not a starter week one, but we just saw.

the help that they need at offensive line. I think they saw a tackle who they said, hey, when this guy’s healthy, he’s top 10 pick caliber. We can kind of slowly bring him into the mix. And by the time you get to November and the NFL season really ramps up, he’s gonna be ready to go.

Stephen Means (40:59.571)

Okay, I’m gonna ask you a question and our listeners, whether those who are listening live, thank you guys for listening live. I know it’s late. We’re asking you to sit on YouTube and watch our floating heads at 12, 30 at night. That’s not an easy thing to pull off. I’ll shut up.

Stefan Krajisnik (41:13.486)

And I admittedly allergies are starting to affect. So they’re having to listen to my voice too, which isn’t great. I love the beautiful weather in Columbus this week. I keep going outside, like going on walks and runs, cause I’m like, it’s so beautiful. And then I come back inside and I’m like, man, I feel miserable right now.

Stephen Means (41:29.711)

and if you’re looking for sponsors, see them our way.

Stefan Krajisnik (41:32.366)

It’s yeah, Clareton Clareton right now Celsius in October will be good

Stephen Means (41:38.931)

Yeah, that’ll get us to the year. So Cam Moore went number one. Nobody was shocked by that. He was also the only quarterback take. No, was the second, he was the first of two quarterbacks taken, which created a whole nother world of shocker that Jackson Dart was QB too and not Shador Sanders. I don’t know, man. I just felt like Shador is perfectly made for New York and New York kind of dropped the ball on that one.

Stefan Krajisnik (41:41.358)

Ha

Stefan Krajisnik (42:04.27)

I’ll say one more thing on Jackson Dart 2.

Like, did he benefit from Ole Miss not making the playoff? Because if that’s what the senior bowl did for him, like, Wil Howard should have gone to the senior bowl.

Stephen Means (42:15.899)

Yeah. That’s okay. so Will Howard was too busy winning a national championship so he couldn’t go up his draft stock at the senior bowl. Yeah, that’s...

Stefan Krajisnik (42:21.73)

Yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (42:26.306)

I love them. I’m happy that Mel Kuiper called it out because he was just like, did you guys watch the end of the Florida game? Like they needed a drive. Like they had like four opportunities to like just put a drive together and put this bad Florida team away. And they just like, he just kept throwing interceptions. Like he couldn’t stop throwing interceptions.

Stephen Means (42:40.433)

Listen man, Queen Sean Judkin said, I can’t take this anymore. Okay? That’s all I need to know. So Cam Wargo’s number one. I think everybody kind of knew that for a couple of weeks coming into this draft. And if not, Adam Scheffner was gonna tell you five seconds before they were gonna make the pick anyway.

So I posed a question simply for the sake of posing a question to our sexers, 614-350-3315, two week free trial, 399 after that. This idea of, so there was rumblings of, Cam Ward might be Ohio State starting quarterback in 2025. It was very known that Ohio State was in the market looking for a transfer quarterback.

I’m sure they did their evaluations on everybody, which meant Ken Ward admitted. Well, Howard had been Dylan Gabriel on down the list there. And now after the NFL draft, the first round is completed. Ken Ward now fits the same criteria as the description that we have had for Ohio state quarterbacks in the Ryan Day era. Heisman trophy finalist, first round NFL draft pick. That’s what the Wayne Haskins was. That’s what Justin Fields was. That’s what CJ Stroud was.

None of them won a national championship. CJ never even beat Michigan. Will Howard from an individual standpoint, accolades and talent standpoint, officially does not meet that criteria. Heisman Trophy finalist, first round draft pick. But he’s also the one with the national championship, which is the craziest part about it. He is from a, like between him and Kyle McCourt, and it’s maybe Will is the worst, just because Kyle McCourt was still a five-star quarterback, okay?

Will Howard has the descriptions next to his name that match what we talk about when we talk about Ohio State starting quarterbacks in the Ryan Day era. So because of that, I proposed the hypothetical of, we think Cam Ward, the number one pick in the NFL draft, Heisman Trophy finalist, someone Ohio said at least evaluated

Stephen Means (44:56.143)

enough to get a yes or no on whether or not they would explore that. Now, whether the NIL reasons for why Kam Ward ultimately chose Miami, sure. Are there football reasons for why even in a world where NIL doesn’t exist, Ryan, they probably still wouldn’t have gone down that road. Sure. And we all watched them play out this year, but put Kam Ward, the number one pick Heisman Trophy finalist in this system with Trevion Henderson, Quincheon Judkins, Emeka, Boka first round draft pick at wide receiver, Cardinal Tate.

Jeremiah Smith, G Scott, on down the list there and Ryan Day and Chip Kelly as his quarterback guys and Billy Fessler. Does Ohio State still win a national championship in 2024?

Stefan Krajisnik (45:42.51)

I think they still do

because of how talented they were. Like it just got to a point in the playoff where it was like, man, like nobody’s stopping this team. And I did see some of our texters raise the point of, you you didn’t need Cam kind of trying to do too much, trying to play meatball, like things of that nature. Go ahead, read a couple, yeah.

Stephen Means (45:51.123)

Mm-hmm.

Stephen Means (46:05.842)

Yeah, I’ve got a couple. got a couple if you want me to read. Okay. The 740. No, he was not a protector of the football. He is dynamic and steered comebacks, but the comebacks were caused by his bad mistakes from Scott and Charleston, South Carolina. No, the locker room dynamic was lightning in a bottle. Ward may eventually have been a better NFL quarterback, but Will Howard connected with the team in a very unique way. Tennessee, Oregon, Texas, Notre Dame. That’s a gauntlet that Howard navigated with his team through this, through sheer passion.

There’s no revisionist history that could say Howard was replaceable in that setting. From the 708, my assumption, yes, the only question I have, which we will never know is the intangible leadership and ability to foster slash embrace a culture of winning. All of the physical tools are there. The other piece is we will never know. There were also people in our texts who were like, yes, Steven, he’s better. Of course they would have. In fact, they wouldn’t have lost to Michigan. In fact, they wouldn’t have gone undefeated. There’s people all over the, all over.

the line there with in our text group, 614-350-3315. I don’t know, so maybe I’m gonna let you answer this question first and I’ll decide from that.

Stefan Krajisnik (47:18.008)

So first of all, shout out to, I think you said it was Scott from Charleston, South Carolina. I’ll be in Charleston next week for wedding. So beautiful. no, sorry, sorry. I’ll be in Columbia, but I was in Charleston for the bachelor party for the wedding that’s gonna be in Columbia. Charleston, I love Charleston, South Carolina. Great place. I think they still would have, I understand the concerns of like, yeah, there was a lot of comebacks and wins that Miami had that were because of mistakes that Cam Ward made earlier. The version of Cam Ward we saw was,

Stephen Means (47:22.055)

Yeah. look at that.

Stefan Krajisnik (47:46.624)

A player at Miami being led by Miami’s coaches and trained by Miami’s coaches. Give me Kim Ward and give me, you know, nine months of him working with Ryan Day and Chip Kelly. You’re probably going to see him bit more polished, a bit more safer version of him than what you saw. You’re also putting better weapons around him, better situation. Like it’s not, it wouldn’t have been the same player. I think he would have been a slightly better player had he come to Ohio State as well. Like I think Ohio State would have benefited. I think he would have benefited if he was with Ryan Day.

instead of at Miami, there is the leadership element that we can’t ignore. Like I think a lot of times we’re like, this guy was a leader, he fit the culture so well. And you kind of roll your eyes and you’re just like this, know, every coach talks about that quarterback like that. I think it was true with Will Howard because we see it rolling into the 2025 quarterback competition.

They can’t stop talking about leadership and the qualities and traits. The Will Howard, he got into the huddling. He looked the guys in the eyes and you knew that you were going to be OK like. That is stuck with Ohio State’s coaches, which tells me that will Howard did it in a way that they haven’t seen very often for guys that have been around football for awhile. You got like Ryan Davis been around great quarterback played for awhile and there is that intangible element of it that that existed and.

Stephen Means (48:54.291)

Yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (49:09.646)

The comment about, they would beat Michigan if they had Cam Ward. Well, listen, they’re calling the game the same way, they probably still lose to Michigan. Like, Cam Ward wasn’t on the headset. And I don’t think they were calling the game the way they did because Wilhauer couldn’t throw the ball. He had a great season throwing the ball. Like, the play calling was the play calling. That’s why they lost to Michigan. And I don’t know if Cam Ward bounces them back from the Michigan loss, if that’s the case.

Like there was an element of leadership on that team and it wasn’t just Will Howard, right? Like they had Jack and JT and Trevion and other guys who stepped up. But the quarterback plays a big part in that. And I think the way Will Howard responded for the Michigan loss matter to this team. And I don’t know if Cam Ward would have. So I could go back and forth forever. I think my answer ultimately is that yeah, they probably would have won a national title because I think this team was just that talented and things worked out. And I think Cam Ward would have been a great quarterback on this team and probably would have been.

Stephen Means (49:42.054)

Yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (50:04.642)

top 10, top five, maybe still the number one pick. But I could see the arguments from both sides and I could definitely see the argument of, I think we even had a comment here from Buckeye Ryan saying they needed Will Howard’s attitude and leadership more than Ward’s talent. I don’t think that’s a bad argument.

Stephen Means (50:26.387)

I think the Michigan game is the only game where it would have mattered. And Night City vibes just said that as well as he’s saying it as I’m wow. But at the same time, if they’re gonna call the game that way where it’s like, hey, you know what our game plan is, let’s run at the number five and number 13 picks in the NFL draft and let’s see what happens. Then it doesn’t matter.

Did you know Cam Ward was the highest graded quarterback in college football last year? Yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (50:51.758)

PFF. I did not. It doesn’t surprise me I guess but I

Stephen Means (50:56.551)

Really? That like, heaven shocked me.

Stefan Krajisnik (50:59.406)

Yeah, I’m trying to think of who it could have been where’s like Dylan Gabriel on that list

Stephen Means (51:06.545)

Gabriel is 14th, 86.6. He’s . So the top five is Miami’s Ken Ward, 92.9.

Stefan Krajisnik (51:10.914)

Give me the top five.

Stefan Krajisnik (51:18.006)

cowlacord. gosh.

Stephen Means (51:18.897)

Nah, Braxton Dart at 92.5, Shador Sanders at 90.9, Kyle McCord at 90.5, and Brandon Lewis from Nevada at 90.3. Will Howard is tied for 15th with Arkansas’s Talon Green at 86.4, and Dylan Gabriel’s 14th at 86.6. The highest Big Ten quarterback is Curtis Roark.

88.4 he was like up there with Darden, Chador and all those guys until the Ohio State game happened. I am very much shocked by that because here’s Miami played a lot of Friday night games this year it felt like and so we were constantly watching them on Friday, which is where they hold Miami boys thing was even born.

Stefan Krajisnik (52:03.852)

Miami and Syracuse, appointment television on Friday nights.

Stephen Means (52:06.803)

It was, and I’m watching cam ward one day and I’m like, Ryan day would have had a heart attack coaching cam ward. And then you look at their numbers. So cam ward has 39 touchdowns and seven interceptions in 13 games. Will Howard played more games. He had 35 touchdowns and 10 interceptions in 16 games. He also threw two picks in the college football playoff.

So take out the playoff run. He only has eight interceptions in 12 games.

Well, Cam Ward had 31 big time throws this past season. Howard had 22. Cam Ward had 18 turnover worthy plays. Will Howard had 15 turnover worthy plays. Which again, we all watched Cam Ward this year, right? just, numbers don’t lie. They also don’t always tell the whole story. I live by that statement. Numbers should back up what you watched, not the other way around.

I feel like if you looked at Cam Ward through the eyes of PFF, you are in for a rude awakening when you turn on a Miami football game from 2024. was every other play felt like it should have been a turnover, whether it was or not. It was very boom bust with Cam Ward. And I know for a fact, because of the way Ryan Day coaches these quarterbacks and his philosophy on quarterback and how he so make the routine plays routinely.

Every single day he would have had to go home and have a cigarette and a couple beers after coaching Ken Ward every single.

Stefan Krajisnik (53:47.246)

Yeah, will say like also PJ comments it again will was hurt during the Michigan game like

Stephen Means (53:49.511)

So it’s not infinite.

Stephen Means (53:56.891)

Yeah, listen, he might not have been in the building after that.

Stefan Krajisnik (53:59.886)

So I think I was listening to part of my take this week and it was either Todd McShea or Daniel Jeremiah was talking about Will Howard and they were like, yeah, I mean, he was concussed in the Michigan game. I’m like, yeah, these guys were definitely watching film, talking to people, probably talking to agents, probably talking to Will Howard. Be like, so what happened against Michigan? And that’s where the truth finally came out of like, I’m not gonna tell the media because that’s an excuse. But by the way, if you’re looking to draft me, I don’t know where I was during that game.

Stephen Means (54:11.196)

Hey.

Yeah. Yeah.

Stephen Means (54:24.711)

Yeah, he’s like what he probably what Michigan game I don’t know what you’re talking about

Stefan Krajisnik (54:27.864)

Hahaha.

Stephen Means (54:31.827)

I don’t think they win the Penn State game if Ken Moore is their quarterback. Because think about the mistakes that Will Howard made in that game. Two crucial mistakes where it probably should have been 28 to three at halftime. And they ended up winning that game 20 to 13, in spite of their quarterback having his most erratic day.

I’m doubling that turnover situation for Ken Ward based off what I watched once in Friday nights.

Stephen Means (55:04.435)

He threw two interceptions against Michigan. I might add another one for Ken Ward because Will’s interceptions were just like bad decisions. Ken Ward, lot of his bad decisions were him trying to do something and make a play when it wasn’t there. And Ohio State doesn’t need its quarterbacks trying to make a play when the play’s not there because they don’t have to. And some of that is Ken Ward’s in a situation where maybe he has to, he doesn’t have Jeremiah Smith, the Mecha, Bukka, Cardinal Tate as his wide receivers. But

The biggest thing overall, I agree with all of you. Will Howard is deciding the quarterback battle in 2025, and it has nothing to do with his football ability. It has everything to do with what he was to that locker.

Stephen Means (55:48.551)

Quinn Sean Jeffkins went on ESPN this week because you everybody’s making their rounds of being media darlings all of a sudden because they’re all trying to get jobs.

Stefan Krajisnik (55:56.296)

But also, Old Spice played a part in that.

Stephen Means (55:58.407)

Yeah, he definitely had an Old Spice background. I mean, listen, Old Spice, if you want to give us a background, we’re not going to say no.

Stephen Means (56:07.899)

I don’t know for sure if Cam Ward would have pulled him out of that hole after the Michigan loss. Because that was the one thing that I always respected about Will was, when it came to that Michigan game, he understood that he has no idea what these other players have been dealing with. He just got here. He doesn’t know what Jack and JT and Trey and Emeka and Donny and Tyleek and Ty Hamilton and Denzel Burke and.

Lathan Ransom and even Davis and Nick Mnose and and Jordan he has Cody Simon. He has no idea This is he’s trying to ingrain himself into something that they have been living and taking the heat for for three years And he’s tasked with being the reason they no longer have to deal with it anymore now They lost it. So now he knows what they feel like but he still doesn’t know completely because that’s one loss of their four. I Don’t know for sure if cam ward would have pulled him out of there I don’t know if any other quarterback could have pulled him out of that

Four straight?

Stefan Krajisnik (57:09.676)

Yeah, probably not.

Stephen Means (57:11.027)

your coach’s address is being leaked on the internet. You’re having players only meetings with Ryan Day that got way more heated than that’s, know, it’s probably not good for FTCL race, what was said in that meeting. I mean, they’re also athletes, it happens. But I just, maybe Will was the perfect guy for that. Does that mean, okay, that

All of a sudden you don’t have the guy who fits the description of what an Ohio State quarterback is supposed to be under Ryan Day, which is Heisman Trophy finalist, first round draft pick, highly rated recruit. Cause that’s what all those other guys were. They fit at least one of those. And for three of them, they fit all of them. Maybe, maybe that’s not what was needed in 2024. Maybe you didn’t need the ultimate talented guy who was going to be in conversations of, he going to be the first quarterback taking off the board or the third one?

Maybe you didn’t need that. you needed the day two, maybe even day three pick who was an old grown man who could just steady the ship at the moment when this program probably needed it most. So he’s I don’t think Will’s better than Cam Ward, but I think he was better. He was a better fit for what twenty twenty four Ohio State football needed. And that’s what matters most. And that’s why they ended up winning the ring.

Stefan Krajisnik (58:23.82)

Yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (58:36.59)

Yeah, I was trying to see the numbers at, you know, Ohio State so badly wanted a kind of a dual threat quarterback. They’re actually, their rushing stats are pretty similar last year. Yeah. Yeah. don’t think I’m so surprised by Ken Ward being number one as I am. Will Howard being 15 with Arkansas’s quarterback. Whatever. your thing. guess we always say, take those things with a grain of salt. I guess some salt is more bitter than others, but I

Stephen Means (58:44.657)

Yeah, like they’re the same dude. So why would CF have loved one of them and not love the other one?

Stephen Means (58:59.033)

Do you think?

Stephen Means (59:04.307)

was a bore.

Stefan Krajisnik (59:05.941)

I agree with you though. I agree with you though in the sense of it would it it was hard to dig that hole that team out of that hole. And maybe we’re selling will short by saying you put in this talented quarterback. They would have been doing the same thing. Maybe we’re not giving him enough credit there. And I think probably at the point where people should start giving Will Howard more credit because he went all year getting no credit and then he won a national championship. People sold it and given credit. So I think like

Stephen Means (59:22.259)

Mm-hmm.

Stefan Krajisnik (59:35.4)

I think I’m with you. went back and forth and like I could talk myself into this team winning it with Cam because he is so good and you know every situation is different being asked to be a leader on that Miami team has been different than you know growing leadership skills for this Ohio State team but Will did it in a way that seems almost impossible to replicate so let’s not let’s not sell them short by saying someone else could have done it I guess.

Stephen Means (59:59.186)

It’s-

Cause I was with you guys, was with some of our techsters who were like, yeah, of course they would have. He’s a normal picking in a foot job, but it’s almost video gaming, real life sports. And sometimes we can all do that. It’s like, if you just plug this guy in and throw them out there, anything can happen. And that’s not how sports actually work. Right. In a video game. Yeah, of course you can just replace Will Howard with the dude who’s a 90 overall on the game and you’re going to be awesome. But

Real sports don’t work that way because there’s still human beings and there’s aspects and there’s things you can’t always predict that can go wrong, right? Guys can have injuries and how they respond to those injuries can be weird. How they respond to, you just threw a pick six on your first pass at Penn State, which is your home school and you always want to play there. How does he respond to that? How do you respond to?

You thought you got down with time on the clock, but you really didn’t get down with time on the clock. And so you lost the organ. How do you respond to your kicker has a messed up hit hip, but also it’s the Michigan game. So what psychologically in his head. So he misses two field goals. All of that stuff is just not always taken into account when we just go, how about we replace this guy with that guy and let’s see what happens here. So yeah, I don’t think they would have won a national championship with cat board.

Stefan Krajisnik (01:01:20.138)

He will Howard did something that no quarterback in college football history has done before. Digging dig his team out of two very bad holes. And when a national championship.

Stephen Means (01:01:24.539)

Right. And that means something.

Stephen Means (01:01:31.091)

Right. I don’t think Ken Ward would have won a national championship as a house, a head coach. I mean, of course, starting quarterback, he definitely wouldn’t have done that as head coach. He’s 22 years old. I think the story would have ended the same way it did for the last three guys who fit his description. Good season. Didn’t get over the hump. Fans feeling like something was left on the table and then on draft day we’re going, oh man, yay, he’s the first round draft pick, which means we just wasted another first round draft pick.

And that’s been the story for five years.

Stefan Krajisnik (01:02:04.846)

I guarantee you all our texters, listeners, and those watching live on YouTube are just fine if Ohio State turns out day three quarterbacks as long as they win national championships.

Stephen Means (01:02:15.443)

but also they’re getting right back to the day one quarterbacks. They have a five star starting this year. So it’s fine. It’s fine. Yeah. Ohio state just went and got an old man for a year so they could get over the hump and it worked. Kudos to you, Ryan Day. And kudos to you, Ohio state. You’ve got four first round draft picks, four of 17 guys you hope to see get drafted this year. Good pace if they want to break the record or at least set, tie the record that Georgia set in 2022 with 15, four down, 13 more to go. Get the tech 614.

Stefan Krajisnik (01:02:18.734)

That is true.

Stephen Means (01:02:46.515)

3-5-0, 3-3-1-5, it’s a two week free trial, 399 after that. That’s round one of the NFL draft. Ohio State four guys off the board, Emeka Bucca goes to the Buccaneers. Donovan Jackson goes to the Vikings. Tylee Williams goes to the Lions. Josh Simmons goes to the Chiefs. That’s 19, 24, 28, and 32. Brian Hartline on a historic run. Donovan Jackson joins Paris Johnson as first round draft picks on the offensive Lions in the Ryan Day era, as does Josh Simmons.

And Tylee Williams joins Chase Young as first round draft picks on the defensive line for Ryan Day as Ohio State’s head coach. We will not talk again until Monday when we wrap up the entire draft. And then that’s it. We start to look forward to 2025 and beyond for Stefan Kreisnick. I am Stephen Means. Thank you to everybody who watched live at 1230 in the morning. You guys are awesome people. You’re the reason we have jobs. I’m Stephen Means and that was Buckeye Talk.